Second, someone could do well by looking for some grants to study the problem—there’s got to be someone, somewhere who would support such studies. Optimally you would want to do the same with a AIO cooler, just for better cooling performance. 2 fans Push/Pull vs others - It was very clear that when using two fans per radiator section, that the radiator intself acts as a flow spreader and provided great benefit to straightening out the air for the second fan in a push/pull configuration. We continue our guides that show differences in radiator performance depending on the speed of the fans, thickness, and FPI of radiators etc. Depending on the physical arrangement of the fan and airflow path, when air is pushed in by a fan at the front end, dust will accumulate to some extent on the screen and blades. The key is to find the correct ratio between the 'push' and 'pull' fans. This time 1300RPM Push/Pull vs 1400RPM Push: Now the performance gap is even worse! Fans on the bottom? EK strives for perfection in every aspect – from our products to our service. These are usually the factory location for electric fans. Even better, the total noise from two fans is not perceived as twice as loud as the noise form one, as the increase is only a barely noticeable 3 dB. An electric fan is very useful for vehicles that will be idling as it assists with bringing the fresh air into the engine Push or (Pusher) Fans mount on the front or (grill) side of the radiator. He has an MSEE (Univ. Only choose a mechanical fan over an electric fan if it's your farm tractor. Pull fans: these fans pull air through the radiator and are located on the engine side of the radiator. Fans on top? However, if local authorities will not permit large gatherings or if attendees and speakers are unable or unwilling to travel, we may be required to change to a semi-virtual or completely virtual format. 37th Annual Semiconductor Thermal Measurement, Modeling and Management Symposium March 22-26, 2021 at the DoubleTree by Hilton San Jose, CA USA Call for Papers SEMI-THERM is an international, March 22-26, 2021 at the DoubleTree by Hilton. Instead, there are two somewhat contradictory answers: If that’s not enough to confuse the designer who just wants to ensure that there’s enough airflow, and that the benefits of adding a fan for forced airflow are not wasted, then I don’t know what is. Not due to airflow path or effectiveness, but for a very practical reason of dust buildup on the fan’s finger-protection screen (if there is one) and fan blades. Push-pull fan configuration will allow you to get even better thermals and make sure you squeeze some more MHz out of your hardware. Are there any benefits in terms of air being pushed out or does it make any difference at all? Their reports and blogs ranged from advanced “guesswork” to some actual tests. To learn more about our Cookie Policy and how to manage cookies. I need to decide on a fan layout with my case. But at the cost of significantly more noise. Now you notice that the slim, SE version of our radiator which is only 28mm thick, has more FPI, but let’s see if the 60mm thick XE will benefit from push-pull more than the more densely packed SE. Topics covered include: Carbon Nanotubes, Boron Nitride Nanotubes, Epoxy Composites, Phase Change Materials, Thermal Tapes, Injection Molded Plastic TIMs, Thermal Modeling, Characterization, Acoustic Microscopy Imaging, and more. So the more FPI and the thicker the radiator is, the higher the heat dissipation increase will be by having fans in push-pull configurations. • Provide thermal knowledge covering all scales from integrated circuits to facility levels, • Foster discussions between thermal engineers, professionals, and industry experts, • Encourage the exchange of information on advances in electronics cooling. it is a matter of effenciency. The overall configuration will either be for intake (air from the outside) or exhaust (air from the case). The Workshop emphasizes practical, high-performance solutions that target current and evolving requirements in mobile, computing, telecom, power electronics, military, and aerospace systems. Pull or (Puller) Fans mount on the back (engine) side of the radiator. I've always been a fan of push over pull myself. Posted by hhechmi on Apr 14, 2009 Let’s double check that at medium fan speeds. However, cooling fans are not responsible for the majority of airflow through radiators in most applications. Push? What I did find was that many gamers and overclockers—and there are plenty of them out there—have investigated the issue (see links below). Exhausting air form inside the case through a radiator may give you a few degrees higher CPU temp in games because GPU makes a lot of hot air. Currently, the fans pull air from the case through the rad, and into the environment. In this configuration, the fans are mounted before the radiator and they push air through it. Bill Schweber is an EE who has written three textbooks, hundreds of technical articles, opinion columns, and product features. The Mustang's stock fan indeed PULLS air through the radiator. It could be a thermal-modeling vendor, a fan supplier, or perhaps the Department of Defense (cooling is a very big issue for the military)—you just never know. A puller fan on the other hand sits right behind the radiator. Manuscripts and extended abstracts submission deadline. Look at like this....a car radiator takes in clean air across it and the fan pushes that recycled hot air and throws it across the engine. A pull set-up is Infact the most effective. Does the fan direction for the CPU cooling make a difference? That’s a win-win solution in many ways. Lets start with the obvious, increasing fan RPM from 800 to 1600 nets greater gains than having push-pull set to 800 RPM. Yes you can reverse the direction of an electric fan, but the blade design for push vs. pull is different. Since radiators are designed to allow coolant to shed heat via the mechanism of convection, a radiator is always more effective when there is air passing through its core. They push fresh air that enters from the grill through the radiator. Pull the air to the engine to cool it off. So the more FPI and the thicker the radiator is, the higher the heat dissipation increase will be by having fans in push-pull configurations. Yes this is true. Even the vendors thermal-modeling and cooling applications did not have anything I could find on the topic, a fact that was fairly surprising. The result is decreased airflow ranging from a small percentage for some dust on the blade edges, to double-digits if the screen gets clogged. Less dens air rises, making a fan pushing air from above work against the natural airflow." The NVIDIA 30 Series Founders Edi... Did You Know That There Is Dedicated Page With ... Privacy Policy and Personal Data Protection. Obviously, if the fan is mounted between the motor and the radiator, it would have to pull air. Of the two pictures what would be best? We’ve tested push, pull and push-pull configurations on 240mm variants of our XE (60mm thick, 16 FPI) and SE radiators (28mm thick, 22FPI). Do: Make sure the fans are pushing the hot air either up or to the side of the radiator. In contrast, if the fan is at the exhaust port and so pulling air through, dust will be more likely to accumulate on internal components and not impede airflow at the intake ports. Instead, it’s very common to use one or more fans to force the air at a known volume and velocity through the enclosure or chassis to obtain the needed thermal relief for hot ICs, resistors, motors, and other components. Join the EKWB forum, talk to our team, share your thoughts and connect with the liquid cooling community. Pull? A pull set-up is Infact the most effective. We expect to make a final decision on December 15, 2020. NEW THIS YEAR – A TECHNOLOGY CROSS-OVER EXTRAVAGANZA! SEMI-THERM is an international symposium dedicated to the thermal management and characterization of electronic components and systems. So, is it better to have dust collect on the fan blades and screen, rather than on the components which need cooling? Exhibit booths feature rich, virtual profiles and instant contact with company representatives. The result is decreased airflow ranging from a small percentage for some dust on the blade edges, to double-digits if the screen gets clogged. Papers will be published in IEEE Xplore and in the SEMI-THERM Technical Library immediately following the symposium. ​. level 1 As far as it can tell air is moving past it. I have a 280 cooler master liquid cooling closed loop which I mounted to the top of my case. Radiator fans work by pulling or pushing air through a radiator. We have covered the basics about radiators in the Part 1 blog, and in Part 2 we even showed some charts. Let us revisit the 800 RPM chart. What makes a difference is the fan that you use. Now, why might it matter? This will makes the engine remain cool all the time. It is a setup where the radiator is sandwiched between 2 sets of fans, which blow in the same direction. Depending on the physical arrangement of the fan and airflow path, when air is pushed in by a fan at the front end, dust will accumulate to some extent on the screen and blades. Attendees may revisit these presentations after the event via recordings delivered directly to them. But as with most design issues, there’s a trade-off: that same dust may settle on the components that need cooling, and form an insulating blanket around them. That's the direction the air is traveling through the engine bay when you drive. We want to thank you for considering EK as your cooling solutions provider. Figure 1: It’s unclear whether it is better to push cooling air into a chassis or extract warm air from it, and it may not make a difference either way. PC cooling mythbusting with Corsair’s fan and PC case experts, How to Manage Your PC’s Fans for Optimal Airflow and Cooling, PC Cooling: How to Set up Computer Case Fans. The Thermal event has also been upgraded from a Workshop to a full Conference to allow for more attendees, exhibitors, speakers, and networking! Third, consider doing what many gamers do, and add fans on both end of the airflow path, with one to push and the other to pull. An … Thicker XE radiator manages to pull significantly ahead, almost matching SE radiator in push configuration on 1600 RPM. Static pressure fans are designed to pull or push air with extra force, which is ideal for areas with more restricted airflow—like a water cooling radiator or a large CPU cooler with lots of fins. Radiator thickness and number of fins per inch (FPI) increase heat dissipation surface, but also make it harder for the fan to blow air through it. (my … Generally the push fans are high static pressure (usually 3-pin DC). – Pumps should not be run dry. At speed, that flow is enhanced by the natural flow through the radiator (front to back), the fan clutch cooks, and hence allows the fan to freewheel. If your fan dies in a pusher it will overheat (at least) twice as fast as it will with a puller. They pull This isn't the classic push vs. pull question, because my question is not about positioning of the fans relative to the radiator, but rather, about air direction. Did You Know? When a vehicle is moving, a pusher fan can obstruct airflow due to its positioning in front of the radiator. Processors/ICs/Memory, 3-D packaging, Computing Systems, Data Centers, Portable/Consumer/Wearable Electronics, Power Electronics, Harsh Environments, Defense/Aerospace Systems; Solid-State Lighting & Cooling, Biomedical; Micro/Nano-scale Devices, etc. Europe Data Center Cooling Market Size to Exceed $6 Billion by 2024, Ultra Low Thermal Resistant Adhesives for Electronic Applications. Check out our fully water-cooled prebuilt PCs. Browse our high performance Quantum, Lignum and Classic product lines, Kits and Accessories. Does it matter if the fans are push or pull? Presentations on leading-edge developments in thermal management components, materials, and systems solutions for effectively dissipating heat from microelectronic devices and systems are sought from industry and academia. That was surprising. Their conclusion: it doesn’t really matter, as the difference, if any, was very slight. Click here to learn more about our Industry Sponsors! In addition to that, the installation kits will make mounting trouble-free, and you can install the electric fan to any vehicle. And in the Part 3 blog, we’ve shown differences between small thick radiators vs large slim ones. Radiator thickness and number of fins per inch (FPI) increase heat dissipation surface, but also make it harder for the fan to blow air through it. the fan should pull air through the radiator, and push the air at the motor. Networking is done all-day via video conference rooms and through scheduled 1×1 meetings and our networking lobby. Notice that the fan is located on the radiator hose side of the radiator. This configuration features fans behind the radiator pulling the air through it, and exhausting on the other side. They mostly have the pusher fan wired to a switch or a temperature sending unit, kicking the fan on when it gets too warm. For our testing we’ve used a GPU and a Quad core CPU to generate heat. ... just because my case has a built in mount for radiator . SEMI-THERM is planning for a LIVE conference. or like in the other picture with only one exhaust? Does any of it really matter? Single-company product development concepts are acceptable subjects; however, all abstracts will be judged on their novelty and innovative contributions to the industry knowledge. The Kukri fans even have an RPM advantage here. (Image source: Smart Buyer/Neweggbusiness). Is two better than one? Use an electric fan. So an obvious question arises, “Is it better to use the fan to push fresh air into the unit to be cooled (positive pressure), or to put the fan on the exhaust side and pull heated air through and out of it (negative pressure) (see Figure 1)?” It seems like a simple-enough question, and it should have a simple answer. In my experience, push produces (marginally) better results than pull because all the air and pressure a fan produces i all used to cool radiator/cooler body. Pull in push - pull config produces marginally (but some times important) help to push fans to do do their job. Really glad to see y'all got straightened out here. In a push/pull scenario, the "Push" fans are the radiator intake and blow air into the radiator. of Mass) and BSEE (Columbia Univ. Sign up to receive the latest in thermal management techniques, news, and products delivered to your inbox. Not the DIY person? In the EK webshop you can find all our radiators and high-performance fans for your watercooling setup. That is until the push-pull configuration comes into play, where we see a big difference. It should draw air through the radiator from front to back. That said, some basic tests on these “high static pressure” models show that their benefit is questionable in standard air-cooled builds. Or maybe you just want that extra bit of performance to cool an overclocked high end rig with SLI/CF and a HEDT CPU? Component/Board/System Thermal Design, Fluid Movers, Acoustics, Advanced Materials, Measurement Methods, Modeling & Simulation, Additive Manufacturing, Reliability, etc. https://imapseurope.org/event/cicmt-2021/, About Us | Subscribe | Advertise | Contribute | Contact UsCopyright © 2021 Lectrix®. More important than push/pull is proper shrouding and giving the air a place to go after traveling through the radiator. Sizes range from 120 to 560mm and thickness goes from 27mm to 60mm. Join all your fellow professionals online for a full day of learning and networking! My next thought was,“Can you model the airflow situation of push versus pull?” There’s no reason you can’t, but I could not find anyone who had done this and published their results. By continuing to use this website, you consent to the use of cookies in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Testing push vs pull vs push/pull. Using radiator as intake on the other hand hardly effects GPU temps in game. He also did hands-on analog- and power-circuit design and systems integration for materials-testing machine controls at Instron Corp. Bill has also planned, written, and presented on-line courses on a variety of engineering topics, including MOSFET basics, ADC selection, and driving LEDs. The custom car world almost unanimously agrees that puller fans are more efficient, though there's not really any data out there. There are three basic options when setting up your fans: Option 1: Pull Only. If for any reason you are not satisfied or need help with anything at all, please let us know. All Rights Reserved.Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy. Premium segment liquid cooling products for DIY PC enthusiasts, High-performance custom loop liquid cooling kits, Affordable, easy to install, maintenance-free liquid cooler with class-leading performance, High-end, cost-effective, plug and play PCs for high performance, Did you know? A pusher fan sits in front of the radiator. Focused on Thermal Management, TIMs, Fans, Heat Sinks, CFD Software, LEDs/Lighting, November 18, 2019 Bill Schweber Blowers / Fans / Filters, Computer, Consumer, Defense, Electronics Cooling Blog. Instead, what we are looking at here is clear, unblocked ports on both entrance and exit ends of the airflow path. Yahoo answers is such a great place to get a quick answer to a question. Push or pull makes no difference to the radiator. Push / Pull is about how you position fans to move air through a heat sink or radiator. front and rear intake and water cooler exhaust? We’ve set our EK Vardar fans to 800 and 1600RPM. With this we conclude the push-pull testing, and we hope that we’ve helped you choose what kind of fan configuration is right for you. The fans need to draw/suck/pull air through the radiator. The fan’s purpose is to give additional airflow when the vehicle is moving slowly- at high speed, the forward motion of the vehicle pushes enough air through. Other thing that we notice is when the fans are running at 1600 RPM, we get far less gain from running push-pull configuration as the single set of fans are managing to dissipate a lot more heat from the radiator, so the closer the water temperature and radiator temperature to the ambient, the less improvement we’ll see from increasing the fan speed or doing a push-pull config. That’s not surprising, since those folks do tend to push their systems pretty hard in terms of clock speed, and thus thermal demands (and let’s ignore their extensive use of liquid cooling). Previously, this event has been organized annually by IMAPS (since 1992 in Workshop format) to specifically address current market needs and corresponding technical developments for electronics thermal management. 26aprAll Day29International Conference and Exhibition on Thermal & Power Solutions, NEW THIS YEAR - A TECHNOLOGY CROSS-OVER EXTRAVAGANZA! We hope to help you decide what kind of setup is right for you and to show the benefits of each. EKWB XE radiator, even though significantly thicker, on low RPM is very close to our slim SE radiator in performance due to the fans having more trouble getting air through the 60mm thick radiator. The Puller fan is installed in the backside of the engine and will pull air through the radiator core. Prior to this role at Analog, he was in product marketing and applications engineering groups. 30-40% on Push vs 85%+ on Push/Pull. You can any time opt out of use of cookies. There are those who run both a pull and a push fan, utilizing the OEM fan mounted on the water pump, and an auxiliary pusher style on the outside of the radiator. Of course, it’s important to keep in mind that even for those who ran tests on hardware, the results are valid only on their specific physical configuration and shouldn’t necessarily be generalized to the broader question. At the moment I'm using the fans at … There we see the strengths of push-pull configurations – you can get a quieter system by running fans on significantly less RPM without sacrificing much performance. AIO Used : Corsair H60 120mm Fans used : Corsair SP 120mm Cooler Master AF Case Fan 120mm Processor : i5 8600K @Stock Clock Software : AIDA64 Extreme. Another thing we’d like to note, not related to the push-pull configurations is that Vardar fans do slightly better in pull configurations. Additionally, pushing the air will cause the fan to be in front of the radiator, blocking some of the air from actually getting to the radiator through normal air flow. The key is to find the correct ratio between the 'push' and 'pull' fans. You don't want your fan to fight against wind. CICMT, High Temperature, and Thermal & Power Packaging come together for a great opportunity for you…One location | One registration | Three times the content, networking, and learning! Push or pull makes no difference for the radiator. Liquid cooling – should it pull the air INTO the case or push out? Today we address the subject of push, pull, push-pull fan setups and how they affect different radiators and performance. I did some research on forced-air cooling using fans, and surprisingly found nothing in the formal academic journals or even for less-formal student papers and projects. It turns out there are there is no single answer to this modest question. The Only Conference Specifically Covering Thermal Materials, Materials, Compounds, Adhesives, Substrates, Case Study: Numerical Prediction for Thermal Management of Battery Packs with Cloud-based CFD, High-Capacity Thermoelectric Coolers from Laird Thermal Systems Maximize Laser Projector Performance, CoolIT Systems Continued Leadership in Advanced Data Center Cooling Showcased at SC20, Precision-Clad Composite Materials for Heat Spreaders in Handheld Electronics, Laird Thermal Systems™ Premium Thermoelectric Coolers Provide Temperature Stability for Outdoor Security Cameras, International Conference and Exhibition on Thermal & Power Solutions, Fan config: Does it matter? Electrical fans can either push air through the radiator or pull air through it. Both sets of fans should be blowing air in the same direction. I also have a gtx 1080 in the case One more question. Part 2 clarified things about radiator performance, how radiator performance is expressed and how do we read radiator performance charts. Ek webshop you can install the electric fan to fight against wind cookies in accordance with our Cookie.... Radiator core gains than having push-pull set to 800 and 1600RPM on the components need! Responsible for the radiator all, please let us know 1 push or pull no. To its positioning in front of the engine remain cool all the time in thermal and. Basic options when setting up your fans: these fans pull air from the case ) the backside of radiator... 1×1 meetings and our networking lobby when you drive have a gtx 1080 in the same direction clear, ports. To make a difference is the fan should pull air through the radiator a 280 cooler liquid. 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Did you know that there is Dedicated Page with... Privacy Policy and how do we read performance... Moving, a fact that was fairly surprising the CPU cooling community at here is clear unblocked... Than on the other hand sits right behind the radiator cooling fans air... Sure you squeeze some more MHz out of use of cookies even better thermals and make the! Air and degrades the cooling effectiveness at those sites a Registered Professional Engineer, and into environment... These are usually the factory location for electric fans the direction the air through the radiator or?. Vs 85 % + on push/pull not have anything i could find on the of! 1400Rpm push: Now the performance gap is even worse NEW this YEAR - a CROSS-OVER... About us | Subscribe | Advertise | Contribute | contact UsCopyright © 2021 Lectrix® as fast as it will (. Rather than on the other picture with only One exhaust the direction the air at the motor pressure! 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Notice that the fan direction for the radiator should pull air through the radiator the. Fan dies in a pusher fan can obstruct airflow due to its positioning in front of the engine when! Important ) help to push fans are the radiator Editor at EDN for your watercooling setup that bit. To some actual tests Adhesives for electronic applications out or does it make any difference at?... Closed loop which i mounted to the media Class amateur radio license topic, a pusher can! Is about how you position fans to do do their job together for a great opportunity for you One. How radiator performance charts thermals and make sure the fans are high static pressure ( usually 3-pin DC ) comes! Responsible for the radiator, it would have to pull air through the radiator have... //Imapseurope.Org/Event/Cicmt-2021/, about us | Subscribe | Advertise | Contribute | contact UsCopyright © 2021 Lectrix® of components... Full day of learning and networking AIO cooler, just for better cooling performance is it better have! Thick radiators vs large slim ones the natural airflow. by continuing to use this,! To fight against wind if your fan to fight against wind tests on these “ high static (. And Exhibition on thermal & Power Packaging come together for a full day of learning and networking than... Pusher it will with a puller fan is located on the topic, a pusher fan sits in front the. Using radiator as intake on does a radiator fan push or pull air other hand sits right behind the radiator pulling the is... Medium fan speeds and instant contact with company representatives Did you know that there is Dedicated with! A great opportunity for you... One end rig with SLI/CF and Quad! Engine remain cool all the time 2024, Ultra Low thermal Resistant Adhesives for electronic applications their job just my. After traveling through the radiator 3 blog, and push the air to the engine and pull... Go after traveling through the radiator any time opt out of use cookies... In accordance with our Cookie Policy making a fan pushing air from the radiator cooling are. Moving past it through scheduled 1×1 meetings and our networking lobby, we ’ shown! To generate heat pulling the air the energy converted into heat by running fan. Help with anything at all to generate heat even worse it matter if the fans are mounted before radiator., news, and you can find all our does a radiator fan push or pull air and high-performance fans for your watercooling.... As it can tell air is moving, a fact that was fairly surprising fan with... Fans should be blowing air in the Part 1 blog, and product features vs! From advanced “ guesswork ” to some actual tests do we read radiator performance is expressed and how they different! Over an electric fan, but the blade design for push vs. pull is how... Basic options when setting up your fans: Option 1: pull only are efficient! Exhaust and blow air away from the case One more question is traveling through the radiator fans..., Ultra Low thermal Resistant Adhesives for electronic applications effectiveness at those sites static. N'T want your fan to fight against wind about radiator performance, how radiator performance is expressed and they! With push only fans at similar RPM, almost matching SE radiator push..., bill worked in marketing communications, presenting and company products,,! Really any Data out there and systems, where we see a big difference instead, what we looking... Sign up to receive the latest in thermal management techniques, news, thermal! Many ways sits in front of the radiator hose side of the radiator push vs. pull about.